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Pro Staff
Captain
posted Hide Post
In addition to Avet, Okuma also offers several pink reels.
To clarify, PENN's use of pink was very specifically a tie-in with The American Breast Cancer Foundation, it is their official color, and a percentage of the proceeds of the sales go to their benefit.
The use of purple would have been a tie-in with the Alzheimer's Association, another worthy, but distinct organization.
The reel itself is a minor modification of what is by far PENN's most popular line, the Battle II.
Assuming women wouldn't know the difference would have seen the pink reels being built off the Fierce or Pursuit platforms.
Building off the Battle platform assumes women anglers are exactly like the majority of male anglers.
We hardcore types can get off into the weeds discussing cow tuna tactics, and forget that the overwhelming majority of anglers are not as serious as we are.
Many, many anglers consider a $100 reel or a $150 combo to be very high-priced, no matter what color it is.
 
Posts: 248 | Registered: 25 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CharkBait Staff
Captain
Picture of Chark
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Steve, I respect and like you very much and appreciate all that you have done for all of us fishermen over the years. While I like breasts and don't like breast cancer, I'll say the same response to Penn as I did to Seaguar. If it's about fishing, and the devastation of cancer, put the money and attention to testicular cancer and donate to that less publicized cause rather than to a minority of users who have not contributed so much over the years to Penn. The numbers that die each year is equivalent I believe, and men are very much overlooked. To my thinking, this has more to do with marketing than helping those who need the help. Breast cancer gets a lot of attention and donations, men's cancer does not.

Just because other firms have had some pink stuff, does not make my argument any weaker. I think it's silly, but again my perspective of what Penn is doing from a marketing standpoint overshadowed my perception of the gear they introduced at the show.

I have to also add that my respect for Penn as a company has declined significantly based upon marketing mistakes, make that blunders. Not your fault, but it is indeed the fault of management above your pay grade. I've kept my trap shut for well over a year but what I see Penn doing from a marketing standpoint is damaging to their dealer base, unfair practices from a marketing perspective are putting Penn's brick and mortar shops under threat. I can be much more specific but at this point I'll continue to hold my breath and my support until I see the type of fundamental changes that prove clearly that Penn values the investment retailers with brick and mortar shops, with trained & qualified store personnel put forth on their behalf. Penn has not demonstrated that sort of support or respect to their dealers, and what they are doing from a marketing standpoint puts retail shops at a distinct disadvantage. YOu know where I'm coming from, and I know you and those I respect at Penn (the survivors) are not the folks who are creating the sad situation I see.

-last, pink will probably go away as an option from Avet, not available on the G-2's...


Great Stuff!
Mark
 
Posts: 1513 | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
Captain
Picture of Agate D
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probably not a good idea to bring in the big "A" word, then. I feel your pain, as my 60 yr old family business was done dirt by hime despot and lowest. not the customers, but the alienation of suppliers! all niche products done in for 'profitability' and then preferential pricing to the big guys. China can make an international reel that looks great for cheap-remind Penn of this, Steve Carson. Otto would not be proud......
 
Posts: 773 | Registered: 03 October 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
Captain
Picture of Agate D
posted Hide Post
Let's face it-that got Okuma started.....before they saw the light.....
 
Posts: 773 | Registered: 03 October 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Pro Staff
Captain
posted Hide Post
quote:
Originally posted by Agate D:
probably not a good idea to bring in the big "A" word, then. I feel your pain, as my 60 yr old family business was done dirt by hime despot and lowest. not the customers, but the alienation of suppliers! all niche products done in for 'profitability' and then preferential pricing to the big guys. China can make an international reel that looks great for cheap-remind Penn of this, Steve Carson. Otto would not be proud......



Actually, Otto would be very proud.
Not sure what you mean about Internationals in China, as they are made in Philadelphia, with 28 brand-new USA SKU's coming out next month.
PENN's USA-made models are: all International lever drags, all Torque lever drags, all U.S. Senators, all "Z" series spinning reels, 12/0 & 14/0 regular Senators, all Torque star drags, and all Torque II spinning reels.
The 704Z and 706Z are the lowest-price MSRP reels that are US-made from any manufacturer.
 
Posts: 248 | Registered: 25 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
Captain
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Since Penn is part of a large conglomerate that also sells Shakespeare, Pflueger, Abu Garcia and so many other brands, I have often thought that a good marketing strategy would be to only put the Penn label on high end reels; i.e., those made in the US and relabel the Chinese Penns as Shakespeare or Pflueger or whatever. IMHO, only some of the Chinese reels are worthy of the Penn name.
 
Posts: 294 | Registered: 20 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
Captain
Picture of Agate D
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sorry, I forgot the word 'clone'. let Amazon sell the junk clones cheap, and keep Penn's integrity intact.
 
Posts: 773 | Registered: 03 October 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CharkBait Staff
Captain
Picture of Chark
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You got it Agate, they have been doing business directly with Amazon. Problem is, their program is a net down situation with deeper discounts than their stocking dealer base. Further, MAP means nothing to Amazon - especially when they are trying to gain traction in a "new" category of products. I'm held to selling at MAP or I lose my coop advertising (5% of purchases, proof of performance). Amazon gets the adv discount up front, no loss of line for selling under MAP. Penn sells product on their own website, rather than helping clients find their products via their retail dealer base. Penn has discounted their own products on their own website, under MAP (they called it a "mistake"...). Penn is no longer a friend to the independent tackle retailer. Heck, the new Torque II spinners are posted there now. Sure, we offer the consumer a better deal, given we supply free braid/mono rigging. But, there are some folks who will go brain-dead and take the lesser offer simply because of convenience or ignorance. Either way, it's more "fat" taken off the plate, and dealers of seasonal merchandise need that "fat" to survive the slow months.

As to Amazon selling under cost. I'm in a good position to know... They took a unique product of mine, sold it under their cost, under my cost and under MANUFACTURING cost. No reason other than predatory marketing. I talked to several other manufacturers over the course of the last two years, they experienced similar problems. Most dropped off Amazon as a direct sell. Some remained, and that says a lot and will influence our position in terms of support.

Once Amazon gains the traction they are attempting, once they reach a certain volume, what they expect from venders increases. Only downside for a manufacturer is that their more profitable sales channel will have disappeared or shrunk by such a margin that it's meaningless. Amazon will do to seasonal goods retailers what Walmart did to locally owned retailers across the country. Jobs will be lost, consumers will lose choices, and folks who fish will be left with few options - none of them offering service, product knowledge, demo gear at the shop for folks to feel and touch prior to buying.

Penn is not alone, there are others. The nation's largest distributor of outdoor gear, six warehouses, a distributor who promoted themselves as focused on the independent dealer (not the big box shops...whose primary distributors are now out of business...), that distributor is now also engaged in selling Amazon directly - shooting sports as well as fishing gear. These dummies are going for quick bucks now, not realizing that in five years they won't have many options other than Amazon.

It's a zero sum game, industry-wide the numbers will not change much. However, the profitability to the manufacturers will ultimately be hurt. I went thru that progression in consumer electronics many years ago. Similar situation, outcome will be the same. Loss of jobs, loss of retailers AND manufacturers. Greed does have a cost. The parent company of Penn may be trying to make their own bottom line look better prior to planned sale of the firm. Only downside is that what they are doing will damage Penn for years to come, and damage this industry.

Not Great Stuff<
Mark

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Chark,
 
Posts: 1513 | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Crew
posted Hide Post
How are the new Penn VISX reels stacking up against the competetion. Specifically the 12,16, and 50 sizes. the Cal Sheets inspired changes look nice!
quote:
Originally posted by Chark:
Penn showed off their new Internationals, now models for the light line East Coast guys and West Coast oriented fishermen who fish heavier lines and drags on Internationals. The new models will be lighter, claim to have significantly higher line capacities (proof is in the pudd'n and one should NEVER trust Penn's capacity figures).
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: 04 December 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Crew
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That sucks,and is a big strike against Penn in my opinion! Mark, you and your employees have always been good to me over the years, despite my lack of local knowledge and living far from California. You have had, and will continue to have my business. Thanks for the enlightenment!

quote:
Originally posted by Chark:
You got it Agate, they have been doing business directly with Amazon. Problem is, their program is a net down situation with deeper discounts than their stocking dealer base. Further, MAP means nothing to Amazon - especially when they are trying to gain traction in a "new" category of products. I'm held to selling at MAP or I lose my coop advertising (5% of purchases, proof of performance). Amazon gets the adv discount up front, no loss of line for selling under MAP. Penn sells product on their own website, rather than helping clients find their products via their retail dealer base. Penn has discounted their own products on their own website, under MAP (they called it a "mistake"...). Penn is no longer a friend to the independent tackle retailer. Heck, the new Torque II spinners are posted there now. Sure, we offer the consumer a better deal, given we supply free braid/mono rigging. But, there are some folks who will go brain-dead and take the lesser offer simply because of convenience or ignorance. Either way, it's more "fat" taken off the plate, and dealers of seasonal merchandise need that "fat" to survive the slow months.

As to Amazon selling under cost. I'm in a good position to know... They took a unique product of mine, sold it under their cost, under my cost and under MANUFACTURING cost. No reason other than predatory marketing. I talked to several other manufacturers over the course of the last two years, they experienced similar problems. Most dropped off Amazon as a direct sell. Some remained, and that says a lot and will influence our position in terms of support.

Once Amazon gains the traction they are attempting, once they reach a certain volume, what they expect from venders increases. Only downside for a manufacturer is that their more profitable sales channel will have disappeared or shrunk by such a margin that it's meaningless. Amazon will do to seasonal goods retailers what Walmart did to locally owned retailers across the country. Jobs will be lost, consumers will lose choices, and folks who fish will be left with few options - none of them offering service, product knowledge, demo gear at the shop for folks to feel and touch prior to buying.

Penn is not alone, there are others. The nation's largest distributor of outdoor gear, six warehouses, a distributor who promoted themselves as focused on the independent dealer (not the big box shops...whose primary distributors are now out of business...), that distributor is now also engaged in selling Amazon directly - shooting sports as well as fishing gear. These dummies are going for quick bucks now, not realizing that in five years they won't have many options other than Amazon.

It's a zero sum game, industry-wide the numbers will not change much. However, the profitability to the manufacturers will ultimately be hurt. I went thru that progression in consumer electronics many years ago. Similar situation, outcome will be the same. Loss of jobs, loss of retailers AND manufacturers. Greed does have a cost. The parent company of Penn may be trying to make their own bottom line look better prior to planned sale of the firm. Only downside is that what they are doing will damage Penn for years to come, and damage this industry.

Not Great Stuff<
Mark
 
Posts: 6 | Registered: 04 December 2011Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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