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New to 12 Strand Toro Tamer
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Deckhand
posted
Hi ALL, very new to these so bare with me.

Just got some 80lbs 16Strand, 60lbs 16 Strand and 60lbs 12 Strand Toro Tamer. It shows the 60lbs 12 Strand diameter is 0.4mm. If I use 30lbs Seaguar that’s 0.470mm, this line should hold in the 12 Strand correct? (Assuming everything is done correctly).

I been reading rule of thumb is to go 1 size up or 1 size down for the topshot. But numbers don’t lie, I am thinking if the diameter are both close to each other, it should work/hold....but obviously I am wrong but I am here to learn why?


Eg1). 60lbs 12 Strand diameter = 0.4mm
30lbs Flouro diameter = 0.470mm

Eg2). 80lbs 16 Strand Diameter = 0.45mm
40lbs Seaguar diameter = 0.570mm

Eg3). 40lbs 16 Strand diameter = 0.286mm
20lbs Seaguar diameter = 0.285mm

These examples above aren’t “1 size up or down”.

Thoughts?
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: 13 April 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Captain
Picture of SoCalAngler
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IMO the outside diameter of the braid and the outside diameter of the mono plays a very small role in this.

The outside diameter of the braid in most cases is measured with some tension on the line. Remember you will need to open up the braid to insert what ever topshot you will be using with the hollow core so this should not be an issue.

Most of the time a problem occurs when someone tries to insert too large of a topshot into the hollow braid. Making it difficult to do so. Also the lighter hollow core braids just don't want to open that much sometimes making it hard to insert any sized topshot.

Going one line size, two or maybe even three either way should not be a issue with most braided lines in the lb test your talking about.

That is as you said if the connections are solid.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: SoCalAngler,
 
Posts: 406 | Registered: 22 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CharkBait Staff
Captain
Picture of Chark
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The only thing I would add is that when you drop down further in leader test, like 30# going into 60 verses say 40# hollow (which would be optimal), you'd want to bring the leader inside the braid further - I'd suggest up to 8 feet. 16 strand can work with a wider range of tests, 50-100# leader into 60# braid (easy to rig, can actually go beyond 130 if you want to work at it). A 16 strand can accept heavier leaders, while the 12 strand will be best working one or two tests below the rating of the braid.


Great Stuff!
Mark
 
Posts: 1433 | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
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Actually I am trying to apply this Spicing idea into my freshwater Bass fishing. I use 40lbs Daiwa Boat Braid Alberto to 12-16lbs Flouro Leader while Bass fishing so was thinking of I can get some 40lbs 16Strand or 50lbs 12 Strand to work with the 12-16lbs Flouro would be prefect with “no knot”! I don’t want to go lower than 40lbs Braid as it will dig into the linespool after fighting/horsing a fish (at least the Daiwa Boat Braid will).
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: 13 April 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
Captain
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For me at least, working with 40# or 50# hollow is very difficult. Just tie your leader with an Alberto (or whatever knot you can tie well) and you're good.
 
Posts: 277 | Registered: 20 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
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I have not get my shipment yet(shipped to some warehouse avoiding duties/Tax). Time will tell if it hard to work with. From what I saw on YouTube videos, it’s not that bad but I guess you have struggled many attempts before you stated that. I ordered 60lbs being lowest poundage this time, if it’s workable, I will try 40lbs or maybe even 30. I have read ann article a guy used 40lbs PowerPro with 15lbs Flouro leader for Bass fishing, we shall see what happen.
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: 13 April 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CharkBait Staff
Captain
Picture of Chark
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Not all lines are created equally. Bottom line, AK I need to send you some of Toro's lighter 16 strand. Believe it or not you can get 130# leader into Toro's 40#. I'll challenge anyone to get 40 leader into JB's 40# hollow.

Call me a bit on the esoteric side for my freshwater bass gear, but I'm running 20# Toro GREEN hollow on my Daiwa Tatula's, with leader of 12#. I bump up to 30# TT 16 strand for my 20# leaders. It's quite do-able. Takes me a tad more time than a knot, but frankly I'm over knots. Run nothing but hollow on my fresh and saltwater reels now, spinning and baitcasters. Prefer to keep the braid closer in test to the leader, more grip, less slip. So, 15# leader into 40# braid, can work - though I'd go up into the braid far more than what I usually do (4-6 feet). 15# better into 20-30# braid. One thing I've learned in my advanced years... wear a pair of cheaters or better yet I spent $20 for a jewelers-type headband type magnifier lense. Works great for seeing the skinny lines well enough to work with 'em. I don't do this on the boat, I rig my inline rigged reels at home. For my heavier wind-on style rigs, those are also made up at home before heading out. On the boat, about the only thing I do is make a new loop if needed.


Great Stuff!
Mark
 
Posts: 1433 | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
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Hi Mark, I have not pick up those Toro Tamer and Avet Pro 30/2.... can’t wait so I managed to steal some Power Pro Hollow 60lbs and managed to insert 5ft of 30lbs Mono in it. I marked where the end of the Mono insert were and did 2 Nail knotson the other end.



I then put on a digital scale and pulled it to 20lbs. I can feel the Mono stretching. I stopped and found the Hollow Braid like this????




I checked the end of the insert and it didn’t move/change position.
- So am I right to assume that the Mono stretches that caused this?
- If not what is it?
- too thin diameter Mono?


Thoughts
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: 13 April 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CharkBait Staff
Captain
Picture of Chark
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Pretty hard to tell for sure, but I'm in agreement that likely the mono has done some stretching. 20#'s of pulling pressure on 30# line, one can certainly expect a bit of stretch. Double the test, braid vs leader, for my own gear I'd be using lines closer in test, 2:1 is a big difference and one I'd be inclined to increase the length of leader into the braid to something well over 6 feet, maybe 10. Having the braid more like 40# to leader of 30#, then 5-6 feet conservative and proper.

I'd say you've gotten the hang of how this stuff works, It's not that hard to do. Important to be sure your nails are TIGHT, six-seven turns, pulling the serving braid to the point it begins to go opaque.


Great Stuff!
Mark
 
Posts: 1433 | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
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Ok Mark, next test I did with 60lbs HC with 50lbs Mono 4.5ft into it. 2 nail knots with glued. As you can see the mark in the Mono was before the pull (where the nail knot was). After the pull it’s either the Mono moved down or the HC moved upwards. The other end didn’t move a bit so my guess it’s with the pull, somehow the HC will move. Anything else I can do to make it right? I don’t think I did it right. Nothing I have read or video I saw stated this HC will move upwards.

Thoughts?

 
Posts: 17 | Registered: 13 April 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CharkBait Staff
Captain
Picture of Chark
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Don't get too concerned. Your connections seem to be holding. If you have tested the connection, and it held, at the forces you've used your connection should be fine. The creep could be a bit of stretch on the braid. Its woven, can have a little - not much - stretch to it's maximum length under load. Small stuff, not to be concerned. Put it to use.


Great Stuff!
Mark
 
Posts: 1433 | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
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Let me do more testing when I get the Toro Tamer. I am hoping to 60lbs Toro Tamer 12&16 Strand both will hold 40lbs Sunline Flouro without the “creep”. Don’t like to see that “imperfection”. I am hoping to get the 30lbs Toro Tamer for 12-14lbs Flouro.

Thanks Mark
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: 13 April 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Captain
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The inside diameter of holloe braidis almost zero. So if the connection is served properly you will not have any problem. I usually end with a pg . The bobbin is easier to use at the rail.
 
Posts: 107 | Registered: 10 February 2012Reply With QuoteReport This Post
Deckhand
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Finally got to pick up the shipment and so far I am liking it. I have been playing with 2 other brands(I am not naming them), I have to say ToroTamer is pretty easy to work with, even the 30lbs. Have yet to try if that will hold my 12-16lbs Sunline But that’s beside the point. AND!!! Not to forget the set of needles are well worth the money.
Just saying....
 
Posts: 17 | Registered: 13 April 2018Reply With QuoteReport This Post
CharkBait Staff
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Picture of Chark
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For light line tests, my opinion is never to serve. By light I mean 50-60# and down. A better solution is to run two to three simple 7 turn nail knots rather than a serve. Frankly, that's my routine for everything I do myself for several years now (however I add a nub-knot for 80# and up). Nails don't curve around a spool, are simplier and faster than a serve and you can do without a stand and clamps so long as someone else hangs onto your line. Simple solution, and in my estimation does everything a Sato connection achieved more simply and with less expense. A well done serve is a beautiful thing, especially the way Blake here makes them, and is very much proper for higher tests. The nail knots are preferred for lighter lines but can cover heavy rigging too with the addition of the nub-knot.

GS<
Mark
p.s. I'd love to lay claim on this innovation but it came from another angler I met while on a 6 day trip some 10 years back. Took me a while to digest and apply, long since lost contact information. The guy deserves credit, but I forgot the fellows name.
 
Posts: 1433 | Registered: 18 September 2006Reply With QuoteReport This Post
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