Chark, Why do you have the attitude that you have about Shimano? You promoted their products for a long time as being " Great Stuff" and now everything they make is junk. If you had some problems with Shimano in respect to your distributor license or whatever the case may be I do not think that you have the right to slam them at every chance. Most of my reels are Shimano and I bought some of them from you. I live in in Key West Florida and we fish hard here as you long range guys do on the left coast. My Shimano reels have given me reliable performance for many years. I sent a couple of my Trinidad reels in for the drag upgrade and caught a 62# grouper with my TN30 with the upgrade. I also have a couple of Avet and Accurate reels and they have proven themselves also. My SX Avet is a fun little reel and my Accurate 665 is awesome. I guess my point is "Get Over It". You have a great site and offer " Great Stuff" so leave the past behind.

I think Mark IS over it.

Hmmm, 1 post, and it is slamming Mark. Wonder what area he reps Shimano for...

I also use Shimano almost exclusively. Have caught many big fish with the reels. I have a TTLD 20, TLD 25, TIAGRA 30, TORIUM 30, TLD 50, and a Triton Trolling 30 beefed by Calstar to a 2 speed and 60#. Have caught marlin, 150 pound plus tuna, yellow tail, wahoo, grouper, etc. with the reels. I have upgraded all the drags as I think that is the weak spot, but outside of that have done nothing.

I know Mark is anti Shimano, but not why. That is his choice. He may have some basis, but not that I know of.

Mark is a great individual and should not be knocked for his distain of Shimano. He is still the greatest store of knowledge I know of. I have fished twice with him on the 10 day Red Rooster 3 fall trip. On each of those trips he was of great help to me. He did not knock Shimano on either trip. He just said he prefer AVET or Accurate. Each to his own choice. Mine is Shimano.

Hooker, if you know so much about Chark's promotion of Shimano, then why do you not know the reasons for his decision to not carry them (the question “why do you care” comes up…but I don’t really care)? Charks reasons for not continuing to carry Shimano have been stated very clearly (and following all his "promotions"). I agree with Mark and wouldn’t buy another Shimano (my first reels were Shimano, now they’re Avet) if he discounted the heck out of them. Oh wait; I didn’t buy them when he discounted the heck out of them.

Here’s an idea…why don’t you buy your quality fishing gear at great prices from Charkbait, and buy your pretty reels with the amazing plastic insides and no drags from someone else. I’m sure those people would be impressed with your bravado of bringing in a 62-pound grouper on a Trindad 30 with upgraded drags ($400 + and you had to upgrade the drags?!! LOL!! Yeah, they sound great!).

H12, There's something called price fixing that Shimano does where they don't let the market dictate the prices .They make good overpriced stuff!!! Look at the Butterfly jigs. The do catch fish but other compeditors make comprable products that work just as well and at a lower price . Mark is an honest man and calls um the way he see's um . Don't brag about a 60 lb. Grouper that you caught that probably would have still put in the boat with a 4/0 Penn .

Hey guys, I have done business with Mark for a long time and think that he offers "Great Stuff" at "Great Prices" as you all do to. He is an asset to the the Sportfishing community. However, I think that he has made a mistake in his business philosophy by putting down products that he used to promote. Retail price fixing is not a phenomena only found in the fishing tackle industry and retailers are cognizant of the terms going into the deal. I have first hand experience with this sad but true reality of the pricing constraints imposed by some manufacturers.

H12 , you said it . Some manufacturers !!! How do you get your point across ? You don't do business with them and you give your customers other options . I bought a used Bantum 1000 for 50.00 at a swapmeet quite a few years ago and after fishing with it for a number of years and buying comprable reels for close to that used price new I saw the light and never bought another Shimano product . Mark didn't need to tell me . I don't see it as bashing I see it as comparison shopping . Did you see that TLD Meltdown on national TV a while back on a Sailfish no less ?

Valid point Hooker. The nice thing about not working for a large corporation, being in education or anything I used to do for a living 10+ years ago is that I can call a shot now, take the consequences, and have a clean concious. I appreciate your words, agree with some parts, and can clarify where there are some issues.

You are correct, I used to sell shimano. Actually I used to sell their stuff twice. Both times ended in the same manner. They got pissed at me, and me them. My anger was due to the way they did business, lack of communcation, one sided communication and dictate, things I perceived as pure arogance. They chose to use me/my business as an "example" as well as another well known bass specialty retailer in SoCal, for the same reasons at the same time. Neither of us accepted their routine well. I probably should take a higher road and not react when angered, however that can be my nature... I allowed one month's time prior to reacting. The old Jewish saying of "screw me once, shame on you; screw me twice shame on me" holds. I was a bit P.O'd at myself too for believing their words: "Value added would not be a problem." They renigged on that agreement two years after I agreed to bring their line back into our shop. I tried to find common ground, had their agreement to maintain value added (add $10 to retail) and offer an additional inducement for folks buying from us (Spectra spooling or a topless frame discount) with an upcharge of $10 (for more than $10 of added value). Then, with the collusion of a couple other ratailers pissing and moaning and pushing 'em, they decided to play hardball and hold up our parts shipments and other orders from us. (This is my opinion, based on "off the record" communication and timing). My attitudes on "Price fixing" are based on experience in the consumer electronics business during the '70's and 80's. It rubs me the wrong way, limits competition, and was something I thought the courts threw out. Something happened during the 90's with respect to court interpretation, and that practice raised it's ugly head again. Instead of supply and demand dictating price, a manufacturer can neglect that equilibrium and bring in more goods than the market warrents, hold pricing sticky, play games with back-end deals and try to "control" the market - instead of letting the market adjust naturally. A larger company like shimano, with plenty of bicycle profits (gained in part because they killed off competing firms with agreesive prices and good quality) can drive out competition, then raise their prices to higher levels once the competition has been eliminated, and reduce quality and production costs. Look to the bicycle market to see the results of that practice. There are few/no alternatives to shimano's bike products these days, prices have escallated, competition driven out of existance, and consumers now pay far more than they would have if fair competition had been allowed. Further, quality has suffered without competition driving innovation. So, I have some deep-seated resentment towards price-fixing, and long term concern of what anti-competitive practices can do to domestic USA manufacturing. The particular manufacturer we're talking about embodies pretty much everything I find disagreeable. I consider their marketing philosophy corrupt. Now, back to your note, yes, I used to promote their products (with value added). Once the added value was eliminated it's easy for me to say that their gear isn't worth the price. Shimano even recognizes that, they are now doing exactly what I tried to do, offer value added promotions on some reels they can't sell (torsas...). One of the last letters I received from shimano stated: New higher retail prices and lower dealer costs! That's the arena they compete in, dealer profit margins rather than quality of gear. Their gear gets pushed simply because retailers make more by selling it. Their profits are longer simply because their gear has less costs held within it's construction. That's my opinion, but if you look at what other firms are doing, Penn, Avet, Accurate, Daiwa...while I as a retailer may make 10% less profit than by selling a "comparable" product over shimano, at the retail price consumers gain far more than the 10% margin sacrificed. Again, all this is "old stuff" and I'm pretty well done with ranting and raving about 'em. In the past couple of years we've seen the results of their practice. They got spanked in the marketplace, and we're still here.

Having said all this, hopefully for the last time, would I ever consider bringing their line back into CharkBait? The answer is sure, but with enough conditions that I can say flatly that it will never happen in my lifetime. There would have to be a legitimate dealer agreement, in writing, there would have to be different management in place, there would have to be communication. I don't see these things happening. So, I don't see that I would ever represent their products again. Understand, I have had several opportunities to bring in their gear since we parted ways. I considered, but each time decided I did not want to help make them any profits even if doing so caused them problems in the marketplace or upset those competitors who collusively tried to create an anti-competitive situation. Remember, we're a little, tiny, mom & pop operation... I don't mind losing 10% of my business if there's a principle involved that I hold dear. In this case, I don't need 'em and I sleep better at night knowing I have not compromised on a philosophical issue I consider important. As far as owning any shimano gear...yes, I have a couple of their TLD15's and even an 80W (which I'd love to sell for $350). I have not fished 'em for a few years now, can't do it.

Okay class.............this ends todays lesson on price fixing in the market place.

I agree 100% with Charks perspective. I personally spent 2 years, no shit, 2 years researching prices of rods and reels, online, world wide.

Here's the kicker. Every country or dealer I researched................Shimano was the same EXACT price. EVERYWHERE! ! ! ! !!

Penn is close, but, competetive. That is how I came to be a Charbait customer. In my research, I used the 15-20 day tackle list from the royal Star's list and priced the rods and reels only.

After 2 years, I found that buying the exact same set ups from Chark, I would save over $11,000.00 from the highest competitor online.

I pride myself on my abilities to save money shopping online. Chark is the Cheapest and I mean this in a flattering way.

I agree whole heartedly to dump Shimano.

I own my Own business as well and not one person tells me how to charge or anything.

MMark, we're behind you.

Pigsticker, Penn did their own little games. Only dealers with a brick and mortar presence can get certain reels. I agree with their decision. They did not cut off their customers by "disappearing" parts orders like Shimano. They care about the end user. By the way all-Shimano's top bicycle racing team has changed to SRAM bike components-cause they hold up!

DAMN! They even screw over their own team?

That is just looooooowwwww.

Mark, Wow you really had a time with Shimano and I now appreciate your mind set towards them. As I said you are an asset to the Sportfishing community and I am sorry for opening up an old wound like this. I was also in the consumer electronics industry and towed the line with the manufacturers agreements but I would not have put up that type of treatment either. Good for you!!!

Being an occassional angler, I have to rely on Mark's advice and service and I have never been disapointed. I have bought rods and reels jsut on Mark's recommendation and have never had any problems whatsoever--and I know if anyting goes wrong, Mark will make it right. Given that, when Mark tells us and shows us the difference in the gear guts from what Shimano makes and what Daiwa, Accurate and what Avets makes, I believe him.

Does Shimano make a good product, they used to.

Will I try smoething else based on mark's advice? Absolutely.

Olliebear also listens to ME when I tell him what leather chaps to buy, rubber latex thongs to wear and the best?

His spike studded leather boustier!

WOW he is hot in that. Aren't ya Tiger?


hahahahhahahahahahhaha